Graphic analysis "Horizon":

Time for another time! One and a half hour for 60 moves and a half hour for the rest of the game! That means much more decisions!

I think the format of this match is a big step forward.
Decrease of thinking time: maybe. But not in the expectation that this will dramatically change the outcomes between similar players. Merely because it may be a more efficient use of time and makes the game even more challenging (and at the top more age dependant). Question however is wheater it will not influence the quality of the games too much. Typically a nice experiment for a big open tournament.

I hope it will be a complete different game

The opening promises it will be a spectacular game today.

@Wieger: Im not a draugthsplayer. Can you tell me why you think so?

it is a mission impossible  to win 3 games ,so....why play ?

With two games to go, will Georgiev come out of his defence shell and attack or will he gamble on the blitz to prove his worth?

it is a strange rule that the players win 3 games. But the result is that you will get fantastic games. And indeed every game is fantastic. But the way of playing from schwartzman and georgiev are nice.  I hope the move 33-28 22*24 30-28 doesn't come

@Arjo: With 5.35-30 and 6.33-29 Schwarzman is taking risks today. After these moves there is no way back for white. In previous games it was mostly Georgiev who took the initiative.

They play anyway.

With  5. 35-50 and 6.33-29 Schwazman reacts in the sharpest way possible on 17-21. 35-30 is exciting because the right wing of white is blocked a long time by 20-25

Hi all To play and win against players in the level of Schvarzman and Georgiev it´s pratically impossible mission. The only way for them to make some mistakes is if they have short time to analise. Very difficult for them to make mistakes when they have time to think. So, it´s important moment for FMJD start to think about to change control time. And also with shorter time the games became more beautiful for watching.

During the games when the players are doing their best to make a spectacle of this match i am annoyed by the discussions about draws and time limits etc.

May be FMJD must accept that draughts is not a game for matches. Just play a world championship tournament every year. Matches are almost every time getting bas publicity. And please remember. Draugths is a sport for people who like to think. So keep the same timecontrols please.

I would like to pay both players a big compliment about the way they are approaching the match. They do not take any days off and play for the win every time. We should not want anything else.

Our friend Koos yesterday wanted a Roozenburg-system, maybe he gets his way. After 14. 44-40 and later 30-24 the system is a fact!

Now 15. ... 14-20??. Common combination in this position

14. ... 14-20?? I mean of course.

14. 44-40->now 14. ... 14-20 is impossible because of 15. 27-22! 18x38 16. 29x18 12x41 17. 46x37 38x29 18. 34x1!

Georgiev mentions at the home page of this match that the computer analysis does not appreciate the positions of the games played correctly.
This is what he said (according to the Dutch article)
‘Het gaat om subtiel tempospel en beheersing van strategische velden. De computer kijkt alleen maar wie het centrum bezet.’
In translation: 'it is about a subtle tempo game and control of strategic fields. The computer only takes into account who controls the center'.
I think he underestimates the computer and, for instance, just forgets the availability of an 8? piece database.

What  do you all think about this?

Georgiev is right. The computer does not understand the white strategy in the Keller. The white strategy is  directed to positions far beyond the computers horizon. 

But maybe in the end the computer is right anyway, maybe the white strategy is suicidal, we simply dont know.

Georgiev is absolutely right. I wrote 30 articles about the Keller and of course I use Truus analyzing games. Truus always judges the centre position better even if a dangerous surrounding is taking place. If I perform a plan for white mostly the judging of the position alters in favour of the surrounding player.

After 14 moves we have an absolutely new  and pretty uncommon position at the board. Schwarzman is occupying the centre again.

One thing is clear: it takes quite a lot of skill to play the white position in yesterday's game. If I play this myself against the computer, I don't discover any chances for white at all. Not even if I force the computer to close the positions. So if anyone can reproduce the variants given by Georgiev, please show them to us.

The combinasion after 14...17-21 15.42-38 12-17 16.47-42 14-20 17.30-24 19x30 18.28x19 13x24 19.33-28! we will not see today.

Tjsonge wat een stand. Het lijkt er op dat beide heren in deze match willen aantonen dat het niet uitmaakt wat je speelt in de eerste 30 zetten. Er zit toch altijd wel een ontsnapping in.

It is niece to hear that Georgiev is interested in the evaluations of the position of my program. He is not right that the program does only look at the centre. Maybe it is just one of the weaknesses of Horizon to understand the struggle for the centre. 
It takes into account around 25 main properties of a position, in total a few thousand lines of c-code for the evaluation function only. Horizon has only a six piece database, as far as I know only Damy and Kingrow have a seven piece database. Kingsrow is very busy constructing the 8 piece database. He has several computers working on that, already for a few month.

Interesting start off this game. They( aspecially Georgiev) use a lot off time allready. @ Rein,  They won't have the combination from Valneris-Ivanov

The thinking time is okay. It gives me time to analyse the position a bit. Also the dished need to be done, I will do this after posting the next spectaclar tactical possibilities:
I think Georgiev will play 14... 17-21 15.43-38 14-20
Now 30-24 is the best move, but let's look at 16.48-43:

 

16... 12-17 reminds us of the Valneris - Ivanov game at the coast of Spain: 30-24! 19x30 28x19! 13x24 33-28!! +
Black can play 16... 10-14! strongly. White can't take 30-24 19x30 28x10 becasue of 12-17! 26-31 13-19 17x48 and 20-24 25x5 +. 
17.46-41 20-24 18.29x20 15x24 19.34-29 25x34 20.29x20 14x25 21.40x29 23x34 39x30 25x34 49-44 19-23! 28x19 13x24 44-39 24-30! 9-14 4-10 12-17 17x48 B+

@Rein: we will also not see 17... 7-12 18.30-24 19x30 19.35x24 14-20 20.33-28 9-14? 21.28x19 14x23 22.37-31 etc.

Is 22. 29-23 an idea?  Black can not exchange 23.

It's a hell of a job to surround the white position. I prefer the white colour though i like surrounding very much.

The position seems even for me. White controls the center but white right wing is a little heavy which gives an opportunity for being surrounded.
Interesting game

typical Gantwarg surrounding

@ Rein van der Pal: a typical Be Eggens as White-position! This great attacker would crush Blacks' position (or he woul fall into a simple trap :)

Be would play 28-23? now! 

@ Tjalling: please help me out, what did I miss after 25. 28-23?

@Ron: Gantwarg surrounding like Gantwarg played against T. van Bokhoven Salou 2009?

Its a well known system for black. Nina Hoekman, a pupil of Gantwarg, won a very nice game against Stokkel with this system.

25.38-32 14-20? 26.29-23!! After 26.43-38 what can black do to prevent the 29-23 move white developing his pieces behind the outpost...  

This is a position from Nina - Jos.
We see that black's position contains many more weaknesses than Schwarzmna's position who can even go 29-23 etc. 
Nina played 37-31...

by the way, is there a good English word for the Dutch expression 'proppen'? :)

25. 28-23 17-22, 2228 1319

@chessplayer: after 25:28-23 would have followed 17-22 23*3 22-28 33*22 13-19 24*13 9*27 3*20 15*35 (or 15*31)

The Beast changes back 37-31x41 instead of 29-23... Time to do the dishes.

On  27. 29-23 maybe 13-19 28. 24x13 9x34 29. 40x29 14-20 and 20-24 and the "encapsulation" strategy of black continues. "Surrounding" strategy maybe semantically correct, but is weird. Is there a better english word for "omsingelen"?

After this 30.48-43 white move towards the right I would play 30...14-20 to try and control this a little heavy white wing

encirclement

I prefer the word encircle for Dutch omsingelen.

It would be very useful to have translations of draughts terminology in English. Entanglement is another alternative for surrounding. I like it better than encirclement. What is are good translations for "voorpost" and "opsluiting"?

There are plenty of words that make a better translation of omsingelen than  'to surround'.

A few of my favourites:
- To "beleaguer" (to surround with military forces)
- To "hem in"  (to enclose or confine)

Or "vastloopvariant"?

Lets ask Tjalling, he wrote a book in English...

@Bart: what makes you think these unusual words are any better than the literal translation "surround"?

voorpost = outpost opsluiting: confinement, if there is a correct translation. It may be better to describe it as a blockade of the left wing or something

In my book it is like this: Opsluiting; Lock (it can also be cramp, but I prefer lock and locking) 
Een voorpost is analoog aan schaaktrminologie een outpost.


   

Encircle and encirclement are both correct. The former is a verb while the latter is a noun. The choice now depends on the grammatical construction of the senstence or phrase.

Or the more fysical "strangulation"- omsingelen

Wieger, the Dutch word 'omsingelen' can mean a few things. It can mean 'to encircle' / 'to surround', but in my opinion the word indicates a military strategy:
You are guiding your men (draughts pieces) to the edge of the board while in the meantime attempting to choke the opponents attack. The word 'beleaguer' captures exactly that meaning, while the english word 'to surround' doesn't.

It might seem like an uncommon word, but it has similar roots as the Dutch word 'belegeren', so it shouldn't be that difficult to get.

The question posed was: is there a better translation of 'omsingelen' than 'to surround'. Yes, I am certain there is. Whether it is easy enough for most people to understand is another matter altogether.

Horizon recognizes now that the position is even. No doubt Feike will correct the evaluation function because it was rather optimistic for white during more than 10 moves

Gentlemen, can you please make substentional comment on the moves? This seems more old-wives talking.

English is not my first language, but I have been living in countries where the official language is english, for the last 30 odd years. I had a look at the Thesaurus wich gives for encircle:enclose, circle, close in, fence in, confine. My feeling is that 'confine' or 'contain' convey the real meaning of omsingelen best.
Entanglement has got a totally different meaning.

Maybe Horizon was too optimistic. However, the computer had wanted to play 29-23 at several earlier points. This has changed and therefore Horizon has also changed its opinion about the position.

Remise again :(

Guest, thank you for joining our bickering

I hoped Schwarzman would dare 32. 38-32.
Now the position again seems to move towards a draw position. Both sides have weaknesses. White misses a piece on 42, whereas black is slightly decentralized.

+6 for black and white has a gap on 42. Is this is small advantage for black, or is it compensated by the fact that all white's pieces work together?

After this 3x3 exchange it is difficult to imagine an other issue than a draw. I have just a small preference for black who is on +7

Basically black is +6,5 because it depends who is to move

White has to be active, otherwise he is overplayed. Black took clearly the initiative.

The Russian bears are moving full throttle towards the cruel and violent aftermatches. I am much looking forward to this and am hoping for a draw today and tomorrow so that probability of having the most spectacular matches on Sunday will be the as high as possible. Georgiev or Schwarzman defeating his opponent three times within 3 rapid games (20 minutes) and 3 blitz games (10 minutes) is very well possible but my hope is for Sunday, bloody Sunday!

good oportunities for black now as he can control the way and echanges.

Everything is clear...15 moves and it will be draw...

Should I change the section called Surrounding the centre into beleaguering the centre, Foxie?
This Bart the Fox seems an expert at English!  
Maybe you want to help correcting my Course in draughts? 

Tjalling, I'm not a native speaker of English. Not even close. I find it just as hard to translate Dutch draughts terminology into English as most people do, actually.
It's just a matter of coming up with creative translations (and knowing how to use a thesaurus). Literal translations are hardly ever optimal.

I would like to have a look at your draughts course, though, however at this point in time I'm too busy trying to finalize my master's thesis.

The position is claearly better for Georgiev now.
How is the Beast going to defend this?

This is much more different cake then Reinout Canal, or not mr. Tjalling Goodmood?

"Encircling the centre" would be better.

Who will win?The shadow or the light?Eva or Adamo?Will be used the regulament what says that after 1000 games will win the one with more hair??
With love! Demiurgo

Thuis! Lijkt erop dat de stand redelijk in balans is.

41... 8-13
I expected 8-12 (because of the possibility 21-27x27) but maybe he wants to prevent white from playing 49-44, now 24-29 25-30 4-9 21-26 16x40 possible.
Well, that's a drawing shot off course. Probably he just wants to prevent 33-28x28. 
Balanced, Koos? Don't you see the weaknesses in white's position combined with trailing in development? Been cycling hard again?

black wins

Georgiev is not a real attacker 41. 8-12 would have been a big chance and normally too 8-13? what for? a draw??

42... 13-18 allows 37-31 =. Maybe Jan should take it over now from georgiev, winning the first game!

33 28

@Jan, (early this match) a Roozenburg most times follows after 5.35-30 and 6.33-29, I won't play 7.39-33, but prefer 40-35. Now white can play 43.33-29 34-30 and 32-27, whit a instant draw!

Im wondering if 33-29 34-30 32-27 is enough for a draw.

@Jan van den Hooff I like your comments. It looks like you are better than Georgiev and you are real attacker. Unfortunately, you do not play for world championship. Bammer. hahaha

After 42...13-18 the draw can be assured by 33-29 x x x 34-30 x 32-27 x x

Yeah Reinout Canal, great player!  

I'm curious how our friend with the most beautiful name, Dieudonné, likes this game. It means Given by God I guess. Where do you come from, Dieudonné?

nobody can win ????  but its over for zwartman

did you see 42. 24-29 43. 25-30 4-9 21-26  16x40 Vic, i THINK GEORGIEV WOULD to MAKE HIM AFRAID but 33-28  is a normally draw (18-22 43-39!)

Sorry Gerrard, I said it before

Ger, are you in a draughs club too?

Black has some chances: (46.24-30 (played)xx 34-39 18-22 28-23 13-18!, but probably not enough to win.

24-30x30 Gerogiev trying to beleaguer his opponent again! 

Schwarzman in trouble!

@Tjalling or Jan, or anybody: Can we see the barages live?

CMR= Kameroon I guess

Momently Schwarzman is out of trouble.

ja tjaling gdc

belegeren = besiege Tjalling jouw woord was frans engles beleaugering, really beatifull indeed. lire et rire heb ik pas gelezen in een frans boekje!! (lees en lach dus)

Aah, Cameroon the country of Ndjofang, Ndonzi and Kouogueu! Draughts may be booming in Cameroon.  

Wouldn't 50... 13-19 have given wonderful opportunities for black?

Can somebody tell me if we can see the barrages live?

Georgiev finally got his chance.

Georgiev don't have any chances anymore. So a draw.

Barrages will indeed be live, if all goes well. Draw again, has Georgiev missed a better/winning plan?

@Bas: 50..13-19 51.31-27 x 52.x 19-24 (of?) 53.28-23 en wit is te ver.

What happened?

Belauguer = omsingelen
Read this, Jan en keep on laughing on your own man:

Bart de Vos wrote: 
Wieger, the Dutch word 'omsingelen' can mean a few things. It can mean 'to encircle' / 'to surround', but in my opinion the word indicates a military strategy:
You are guiding your men (draughts pieces) to the edge of the board while in the meantime attempting to choke the opponents attack. The word 'beleaguer' captures exactly that meaning, while the english word 'to surround' doesn't.

It might seem like an uncommon word, but it has similar roots as the Dutch word 'belegeren', so it shouldn't be that difficult to get.

Tnx Krijn.

Jan,

Actually, the word beleaguer is not French English, it's Dutch English. It is directly derived from the word belegeren. Check http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=beleaguer for more info.

As i said...15 moves and it will be remise... it was exactly 15 moves....am i wrong??? Everything was clear...   Demiurgo  

Can someone explain to me what Schwarzman's answer is on 21-26?

@guest: 33-29

My compliments to Georgiev, he found not only a way to constructivly play against the attacking position of Scharzman, he even took over the initiative. In the end it was apparently not enough

Good Match

@ Wieger: Entanglement is verstrengeling van deeltjes in de Quantummachanica (zoals ik het begrip ken tenminste, het kan meer betekenissen hebben)...
De tegenstander vast laten lopen heb ik vertaald met to freeze the opponent out.
Vastlopen: being frozen out. 
Vastloopvariant: Variation in which the opponent is frozen out 
(Course in draughts part II)  

Tomorrow I'm not here, school ends to late. Maybe the day after tomorrow i'm here again. Good watch everybody.

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