Graphic analysis "Horizon":

This will be the opening of today:
1. 33-29 17-22 2. 39-33 11-17 3. 44-39 06-11 4. 50-44 01-06 5. 31-26 16-21 6. 32-28 19-23 7. 28x19 14x23 8. 35-30 10-14 9. 30-24 and a draw as result.
If the time will be changed into 1.30h for 60 moves and then 0.30h for the rest of the game, then we shall have a winner but now...

I dont think that chages in the time will be better
This WC and here we have two strongest palyers in the world ,so  if one want to do draw - he always can to do that

So it will be like in the tennis - tie break

Yeah!!! Of course i was right!! They are sooo obvious..

Yep
But may be today they want to play

need a little lucky

I never thought I'd say this, but the Keller opening is starting to bore me.

May be they dont know 
but in 10x10 we have another moves too

I think Georgiev wants to prove that the taxation of Horizon is incorrect in such positions by trying to create serious opportunities. Let's hope he succeeds.

For the x-th time this Keller. I;m speechless: .................

good afternoon, nothing's boring for me, I've studied this in more then 50 games and may be black will find the winning end-play to-day (but I really don't believe it)

Our Analyst Tjalling is on. Welcome sir! Another exciting Keller is ongoing and your spontanueous analysis will be welcome.

Georgiev is writing my next article about the Keller in Hoofdlijn (part 31)...... 

me prefer georgiev positoin.

@ Hello Dieudonné Ningpah!

Man with the beautiful name from Cameroon!
Thank you for your nice and enthusiatic words, my friend! What's your opinion about the Keller-opening by the way?

Hopefully Georgiev will show today that this is a sound strategy for white :-) It's admirable that he keeps trying again.

Compared to the last game Scharzman played 13-19 instead of 14-19 leaving the formation 3-9-14 in tact. Would he really be contemplating 2-8-13 now?

the best tactic for black is to build a concrete wall and get white out of the trenches so that he can profit of his headed position

@ Tjalling Congratulation for getting my country right. I must admit I have never come across this variant before. If there is no combination to end the game prematurely, then we will observe another brainstorming end game.

Als Bert Raven dit leest: we missen je. Kun je ons vertellen of 38-33 erbij hoort, of moet je meteen een blokje 25-30-35 maken en terugruilen?

I've already an end-game +1,74 for black (9-9) so white seems only trying to demoralise black and when he uses a tactic in rapidgames by not to have to think he has a slight favour in timespending during the game which can be advantaeous  

This Kellervariation was also played in the Wiersma - Tsjizjow match. The interesting game went:

10.37-31 20-25 11.24-20 15x24 12.29x20 14-19 13.20-15 10-14 14.41-37 22-27 15.31x22 17x28
16.33x22 18x27 17.26x17 12x21 18.40-35 8-12 19.34-30 25x34 20.39x30 12-18 21.44-39 7-12 22.45-40 11-17 23.40-34 6-11 24.38-33 2- 7 25.33-29 21-26 26.39-33 17-21 27.47-41 11-16 28.43-39

Diagram

18-22 29.29x18 12x23 30.33-29 13-18
31.37-31 26x37 32.42x31 23-28!
 
32... 9-13 33.39-33! was in Wiersma - Christian vd Schaaf see next post

33.30-25 9-13 34.34-30 7-12 35.49-44 12-17
36.44-40 28-32 37.40-34 19-23 38.39-33 23-28 39.41-37 32x41 40.46x37 28x39
41.34x43 13-19 42.30-24 19x30 43.35x24 3- 9 44.48-42 9-13 45.42-38 27-32 (1-1)

What Schwarzman has shown so far is that you dont really need to keep 3,4,9,14 in place, which does not seem to be very good news for white since it essentially gives the black pieces an additional attacker. Or am I too simplistic now?

Georgiev is really "in Bert " now. No 41-37 yet

Christian could not play 21-26, do you see the combination for white Dieudonne?

Has the spirit of Raven taken over Georgiev? (sorry for plagiarising (or something) Christiann)

It was a pity for Wiersma I played 9-13??, this game was played a few weeks before the match.

In later games the strategy of not playing 41-37 was introduced by Raven and others. 
Time to give an example of a typical Raven-style-victory I hear the audience shout? Well, well, okay, okay, Tjalling will look it all up for ya. 

Graag! Raven - Wim de jong is fraai!

now me like schwarzman positoin

I cant understand what are Georgiev strategy ?
What he is trying to do?

I fpound only two games Raven lost with the system, I' ll look again, Bert, but I found something nice:

Bert Zwart - Henk de Witt

10.37-31 20-25 11.24-20 15x24 12.29x20 22-27 13.31x22 17x28 14.26x17 12x21 15.33x22 18x27
16.20-15 8-12 17.40-35 14-19 18.34-30 25x34 19.39x30 10-14 20.44-39 2- 8 21.45-40 12-18 22.40-34 8-12 23.30-25 11-16 24.34-30 6-11 25.30-24 19x30 26.25x34 11-17 27.34-30 7-11 28.30-25 

diagram

23-28 29.38-33 27-32 30.33x22 18x27 31.39-34 21-26 32.34-29 12-18 33.43-39 17-21 34.39-34 11-17 35.49-44 18-22 36.34-30 22-28 37.44-39 13-18 38.39-34 18-22 39.42-37 26-31 40.37x26 32-38
41.30-24 9-13 42.34-30 13-18 43.47-42 38x47 44.24-20 47x24 45.30x10 28-33
46.10- 5 33-39 47. 5-19 39-44 48.20-14 44-50 49.14-10  (2-0)

Henk was kind enough to play 27-32... the game of Raven against De Jong is a much better example, but it may not be in TDAM. Perhaps it is on Frits' webpage somewhere.

 
Raven - I. de Jong 1992

10.37-31 20-25
11.24-20 15x24 12.29x20 14-19 13.20-15 10-14 14.40-35 22-27 15.31x22 17x28
16.26x17 12x21 17.33x22 18x27 18.34-30 25x34 19.39x30 8-12 20.44-39 2- 8
21.45-40 12-18 22.40-34 8-12 23.30-25 18-22 24.34-30 12-18 25.41-37 21-26
26.37-31 26x37 27.42x31 11-17 28.30-24 19x30 29.25x34 7-12 30.34-30 23-28
31.39-34 18-23 32.43-39 13-19 33.38-33 9-13 34.49-43 6-11 35.31-26 11-16
36.47-42 3- 8 37.42-38 12-18 38.30-25 8-12 39.46-41 28-32 40.34-29 23x34
41.39x30 

diagram

Black gives a piece but will escape. 

32-37 42.41x21 16x27 43.33-29 19-23 44.48-42 23x34 45.30x39 22-28 46.42-37 13-19 47.35-30 17-22 48.37-31 18-23 49.38-33 12-17 50.43-38 28-32
51.39-34 32x43 52.34-29 23x34 53.30x48 19-23 54.33-28 23x32 55.48-43 14-19 56.25-20 19-23 57.20-14 23-29

Jenia, good question, not so easy to answer. White wants to create a situation in which black has little spcae to play and freeze him out, that is having no sensible moves to play anymore. The game Zwart - de Witt (Black with white against The White with black) shows an example. Black goes to 32, but can't move on and is frozen out.  

Tjalling, thank you for the answer
but this is not good strategy against Shwarzman
and for game in WC

What is white trying to achieve?

For example: 33. 35-30 8-13 34. 44-40 17-22 35. 41-37 .23-28 36. 37-31 26x37 37. 42x31 3-8 6.
38.47-41 8-12 39. 33-29 and white has good possibilities to break throug. But ofcourse a weak move was needed (8-12)

10.37-31 20-25 11.24-20 15x24 12.29x20 14-19 13.20-15 22-27 14.31x22 17x28 15.26x17 12x21
16.33x22 18x27 17.34-30 25x34 18.40x18 13x22 19.41-37 8-12 (Goedemoed - Schuitema)

White can try this: 37-31?! 21-26 and taking a shot to 5!

Jenia, things are getting a bit clearer now we have a 11x11 position. Watch the next variation: 37.34-30 23-28 38.33-29 13-19 39.44-40 19-23 40.39-34 3-9 41.40-35 9-13 42.30-25 13-19 43.35-30 27-31 44.36x27 21x32 45.42-37 16-21 46.48-43 21-27 47.43-39 see diagram. Black is frozen out in this beautiful position and needs to lose a piece!

37.44-40 3-9 is different now becasue after 38.34-30 23-28 white can't play 39.33-29? 18-23! 27-32 26-31 21x45 B+

Guys, this is the 12th game. What happens if it draws again? i saw all last eleven games were draw.   
Thanks

then result 12-12

Tjalling, thank you very good work!!!
But what i am trying to say that this is not something new for Shwarzman and he is must be drunk to get this position

And may be in Wc Georgiev must to play more agressive if he want to be WC

12-12 and who win?

3win

In draughts 10x10 computers are stronger than people now or not yet?

I agree with you, Jemia, that Georgiev is very optimistic about getting chances with such a difficult system. But Georgiev likes to take huge risks. Without risks his blood is not streaming fluently enough. So Georgiev takes every chance to create danger even for himself... In his former life he was a crocodile hunter.

Bart wrote Keller starts to get boring. Although I don't have that feeling myself, I do start to wonder how to see this game. A sincere attempt to obtain two points, or an intellectual discussion? With Killerdraughts this game would have been much more interesting. Now both players could play the first 25 moves fast due to the large body of theory, and will have enough time to find a draw.

Dear draughtslovers from Brasil.
Replay will be saturday and sunday with rapid games! One has to win 3 games to be the new champ. Long way to go! Stay tuned...

Hi Tjalling ! I was out for lunch. There is little I can predict in this game. I prefer to keep my little knowledge of draughts to myself and resign to my spectator status. With regards.

me hope next wc tournament in africa. me will come then watch games.

For the people who want to know what will happen when after today's game, please check the following link: www.wkdammen2009.nl/index.php

I'm back again, my computer insists in playing 38 26-31 39. 41-37 21-26 48-43 (p.e'.) 23-28 with good position (3-9 does worry me)

@Belfastchild : chess is more drawish than draughts? Lol, that's the joke of the day.

38...26-31 another good joke! 

Although I like chess too I must say that the draws until know are not te same as the games not being interesting. On the contrary. Furthermore there is no chess match with an ending as spectacular as this Saturday and Sunday.

yes the best way, but a bit complicated, 41-37 27-31 is preferred by schwarzman with a slight better position but not enough for a victory, sorry for your ignorance Tjalling  

Is Georgiev better than Gruba? Who is the best?

39.35-30 9-13 40. 33-29 23-28 41. 30-25 19-23 42. 29-24 is very dangerous foir black!

Killer Draughts is a very good variant

38... 26-31?? is the worst move of all. Estimated time Schwarzman has calculated about 26-31:
0,000000000 seconds. 
The Beast would say: 26-31?? I won't even look at it! 

38... 26-31?? helps white with his goal to freeze black out. Only a man who hallucinates he is better than Georgiev can suggest this as a winning move...

Interesting position though! I like this Keller.  

after 35-30 9-13 33-29 me like white positoin

@ Yes booby, killer is the best, killer is superior, so people will never embrace it. People prefer inferiority, history proves this over and over again.  

I agree with Christian 39.35-30 is certainly a good move that proves that white position is not worse than back's. The position is even and a draw is now expected

Ah ah ah 0,00000000000000000000000 seconds

I think no 9-13 now but 39... 23-28! in order to change back getting more space 18-23x13 after 33-29. 
39... 23-28 40.42-37 27-31 finally leads to a draw.  

Tjalling, I have to agree with Jan, sincey ou forget that 26-31 is better than 4-10. So 26-31 is only the second worst move.

For computers its maybe a draw, but for humans the game starts!

Tjalling,

After 42-37 27-31? 36x27 22x42 33x20 14-20 47x38! 20x40 39-34 40x29 I think white has still a good chance.

No, never mind. I miscalculated.

This sharp position could logically emerge.
29-24 must be met by 22-27!! now =.
And what about 30-24 etc. ?

now possible 19-23 41-37 27-21 46x37 16-21 43-38 21-27 38-32!

Yes, Joel, very well! Black has to play 42.. 13-19 now! 27-31 the logical move losing...

In draughts 10x10 computers are stronger than people now or not yet?

Maybe the variation of Bart is unavoidable ...

Yippy for Georgiev

on 13-19 30-25! (no 47-41?)
now 27-31! 46x37 22-27! 29-24! 43-38

to zzz : I do not know if computers are yet stronger than humans but I have the feeling that in one year as a maximum it will be the case!

then 26-31 37x26 28-32? 39-33! 26-21! good endgame wite

@ Zzz
Computer programs are pretty strong, zzz, but not as strong as humans.
For example, Truus judges 42... 27-31 43.36x27 21x41 44.46x37 16-21 45.43-38 4-9
(21-27 46.38-32 27x38 47.42x33 ) 
as only small advantage for white while human players would recognize this to be winning for white

Horizon seems now to be wrong. Without mistakes the result is surely a draw

Horizon wants to see a winner.

Truus is far for being the strongest program. In a match against Kingrow, Kingsrow won be the following score : 36 wins, 121 draws and 1 loss
The four strongest programs are Tdking, Damy, Kingsrow and Damage

three times yippie for Georgiev

43.47-41? Georgiev makes a mistake! Well, okay this is off course a sure draw, but 46-41 could have given a better fight.

Wow amazing record Gerard ! I didn't know that Kingsrow is that strong! It is generating 8-pieces-endgame I heard. Fascinating!

What was the time schedule in the match truus-kingsrow?

Yes I suspect Kingsrow has now very near to have the complete 8 pieces endgame database but that does not explain the difference between TRuus and Kingrow. In another match against Truus, Kingsrow was restricted to use only the 4 pieces endgame database and it won again by the following score : 22 wins, 131 draws, 5 loss

It will soon be a draw now:
13-19 38-33 (10-4?? 27-32!!; 10-5 27-32 28-33) 18-22 42-38 (Black threatens to play 28-32 and 23-28 and after 10-5 black can play 27-32) and now black can directly force a draw with 27-32 28-32 and 19-24

18-22?

It was quick games (9' for 75moves) in order to finish the match in one weekend

Fantastic game today! This time Georgiev tricked Schwarzman into a closed position, and Schwarzman was (is?) in real danger of losing the game. Georgiev has demonstrated that the Keller is still a system for white, even on the highest level!

i think a draw

always keep thinking 52. 13-19  10-4? 27-32x43 30x28 would be nice, but I would say till to-morrow seen enough for to-day

In Cameroon and Brasil they were just beginning to dance and sing my great song and then they banned it! Such a shame. Is singing forbidden for people watching draughts games? Maybe I should rather go watch ice skating races...

Tomorrow there is no games

black wins

13-19?  38-33  18-22  30-35

Draw!

ben er weer! leuk slot!

O, Koos, wat heb je je tijd weer zitten verspillen op school... Je mist een groots spektakel.

Me, I take it you mean 13-19? 38-33 18-22 and then 33-29 and 30-35?
What's wrong with that?
42-38 is the only move that isn't an instant draw, but after 19-24 it will be.

Gradually, Georgiev seems to have completely taken over the match! Although up to this point this has not resulted in a win for him yet, it does give a perspective on how the deciding finals of Saturday and Sunday will look like.

And according to Horizon this game is not finished yet. Though I must confess to hope for a draw as this will promises maximum suspense for Saturday and Sunday.

Schwarzman missed 54. ... 18-22 and now seems to be in real trouble!
Are we going to see the first win today?

The problem with Horizon is that it does have the 7 pieces endgame db.
After 56.42-37 57.33-28 59.46-41 it is db draw

No problem, draw.

Morgen thuis om half 4 denk ik, dan zie ik hopelijk wat meer!

Sorry Horizon does not have the 7 pieces endgame db.
After 56.33-28 it is also a draw

O great this weekend will be the weekend of weekends. Towards a cruel and spectacular  barrage. Bread and games.

Sorry, we switched off before the result was added. I will correct this, just for the record.

Do you know at what time will be played the games on Sunday ?

[img]http://fmjd.org/dias2/save/12453347662.png[/img]
This fantastic position mentioned by Tjalling, is where its all about. 42. ... 13-19 was forced. Georgiev could have played 43.46-41. 

Hi Tjalling! We look forward to more fund from you over the weekend. Bye to everyone.

Flits geeft et volgende commentaar: 09. 05-10 (-39) beter is 21-27 37-31 13-19 24x13 08x19 41-37 20-25 46-41 09-13 37-32 11-16 32x21 16x27 41-37 (1) 10. 37-31 (-6) beter is 33-28 22x33!39x19 14x23 38-32 11-16 37-31 07-11 31-27 10-14 42-38 14-19 44-39 19x30 34x14 23x34 (34) 52. 13-19 (-43) beter is 18-22 38-33 13-18 10-05 27-32 33-29 32x41 39-33 30x39 33x44 23x34 05x46 26-31 46-41 31-36 41-47 (-4)